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Santosha1 |
What are you thoughts... |
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about the adage "It is better to have loved and lost love, than to have never loved at all"
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bc199th.vets |
#1 | |||
Santosha1 wrote: I agree that a person who has not loved is not whole. I also think that severe PTSD changes the whole equation. When you can no longer express your true thoughts to people you dearly love in a proper manner, it is very frustrating and sometimes devastating for both parties. I had an old Vietnam brother call my cell phone while I was in the hospital recovering from heart surgery a couple of weeks ago. I have seen him twice in 39 years. My phone wasn't on and he left me a message. "Sarge, I just wanted you to know that I am praying for you and I love you". It brought tears to my eyes. I could never have done what he did even though I feel the same way. I loved my Mother dearly and she died in Jan. of this year at an old age. I tried for weeks to think of the last time I told her that I loved her and I could not remember a single time after Vietnam. I am still ashamed about that and my actions are now unchangable. I am always very uncomfortable when my family members try to hug me and I love them very much. It is embarrasing because I know they can detect that I am uncomfortable. Other than my wife I think most of my family is afraid of me even though I have never laid a hand on any of them. They have seen me lose my temper and get physical with people in circumstances that were just stupid on my part. I know those situations are also embarrasing for them. At the same time I can hug an old Vietnam buddy and feel comfortable doing so. There are a few on this board that I would hug with no reservations if I met them in person. Not trying to hijack your thread Santosha but the word love and it's meaning cover a lot of territory. Are the folks I love but can no longer express my love to considered a lost love? I don't know but I sure feel that way sometimes.
Bo
11B40 Vietnam '69-'70 80% SC 100% IU SSDI
'No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection.' |
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warzone54 |
#2 | |||
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Kind of sorrowful to think that someone has never loved. But then, I am sure it is possible. I can remember the magnitude of that emotion and how it trumped
all of the other feeling in my life. Now, I am pretty imotionally "flat". BUT I still prioritize it as being there somewhere within me even tho the
feeling of it is void.
BC covered alot of territory in his reply. Many good points. I tell my wife and daughter that I love them daily. I know that I have to down deep. And am proud of myself for always being 100% faithful to my wife. Then there is Brotherly love that many VN vets share. Jimmy (Jray) taught me that it is okay to tell another vet that you love them. That was a big step for me. Sorry, seems as if I am all over the the place in my response but this is a good yet multi-faceted question. Wz
You can find something wrong with everybody if you want to search long enough
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Santosha1 |
#3 | |||
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Well, I feel you have both expressed yourselves beautifully here...I really do.
In reading your postings it did bring up another question I have...when you returned home from VN, did you want to have friendships with the men you served with after you came home? |
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bc199th.vets |
#4 | |||
Santosha1 wrote:I stayed close to a couple of buddies who lived in the vicinity. After a while we lost touch because we all moved and started lifelong careers. In the last few years I have reconnected with quite a few of them via reunions. Some I talk to almost daily. Even when we were not in touch for years, there was never a day I didn't think about them. When I did reconnect with others after 35+ years it was like we picked up where we left off. It was like the 35 year absence never existed. As an NCO you never get really close with your commanding officers. I now talk to my old Vietnam C.O. almost daily. I asked him in front of a group why he rode my a$$ so hard in 'Nam. He announced to the group that I was the best he ever had in the field and the "biggest threat to his career" when we were back at base. Pretty funny and the part about me being a threat to his career was probably true. I was no boy scout. Now we are more like brothers than officer and enlisted man. Another thing that has happened is that many of our wives have become good friends and they look forward to our reunions as much as we do.
Bo
11B40 Vietnam '69-'70 80% SC 100% IU SSDI
'No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection.' |
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idapaul.vets |
#5 | |||
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why do you have to lose it to appreciate it?????????
free your mind and your a** will follow
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Santosha1 |
#6 | |||
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Eloquently expressed Bo...in your writings I find it hard to believe you have difficulty expressing yourself to your family...maybe writing your feelings out
would be a way to go.
I'm really happy for those of you who have reconnected, and I think it's fantastic that the spouses enjoy meeting each other as well. There are many different types of love, one of the reasons why, IMHO, love is powerful and beautiful, in every language. Only we don't use the word enough, again my opinion. I went through this phase, when I was still able to get out and about, where I would listen in on what people were saying...and repeatedly I heard "I hate my job" "I hate the way that looks", etc. And I thought, wow, how different would our society be if we could stop talking about "hate" and start talking more about "love". My very, very dear friend could not even type the word love when we first began our friendship...it was so sad. He explained to me that he thought of himself as a monster for what he did in VN, and did not deserve love. It is completely different for him now, and I am so very grateful for that. We all deserve love....in all the varied ways it comes to us, our love for our kids, our love of our pets. our love for our friends...whatever it might be. ...and lots of hugs along the way. It might start out feeling very uncomfortable when expressing love, or receiving/giving a hug...but it's worth the effort...try it, trust me, eventually you will LOVE it. In the end, I believe in the adage...it is better to have loved and lost love, than never to have loved at all. In closing, I think for a lot of us the hardest person to love is ourselves...I started with a simple mantra statement..."I am loving, I am lovable, I love me"....it took awhile, but now I can sing those words... Big Warm Hugs to All, Susanne P.S. I'm hoping my posting are making sense today...I'm in a flexiril stupor...had to take 20 mgs of the stuff last night. |
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bc199th.vets |
#7 | |||
Santosha1 wrote:I actually do this fairly often. I find it much easier to convey my feelings in writing. Don't know why.
Bo
11B40 Vietnam '69-'70 80% SC 100% IU SSDI
'No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection.' |
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Santosha1 |
#8 | |||
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Doesn't matter why or how in my book...my husband has a really hard time expressing his feelings...but then I get this beautiful cards with his feelings
and thoughts expressed there...he tells me when it's time for us to "talk"...lol...he has a thousand responses going on in his head and can't
get one out...rofl
Idapaul...I missed your post, certainly don't need to loose love in order to appreciate... |
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samz.vets |
#9 | |||
bc199th wrote: I agree with you, Bo. There is something (for me) about the written word that helps me express myself.
CableDawg4Life
___________________________________________________________ "The Internet is a telephone system that has gotten uppity." -- Clifford Stoll "A man with few friends is only half-developed; there are whole sides of his nature which are locked up and have never been expressed. He cannot unlock them himself, he cannot even discover them; friends alone can stimulate him and open him." ---Randolph Bourne |
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bc199th.vets |
#10 | |||
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I think Sam is the most eloquent poster on the board and yet he has trouble expressing himself verbally to his family. It just goes to show what a problem
some forms of verbal communication can be for some of us.
Although it has been a while, I can stand before a group and deliver a fairly good speech and answer ad hoc questions afterwards. No problem. I can bargain car prices with the best of them. But don't ask me to tell family members I love them or I am proud of them. I find that extremely difficult and that is very puzzling and embarrassing to me. I have no problem communicating with my family in writing but it just isn't the same because it is not spontaneous. Touching and hugging is another form of communication that I am not good at with family.
Bo
11B40 Vietnam '69-'70 80% SC 100% IU SSDI
'No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection.' |
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samz.vets |
#11 | |||
bc199th wrote: ...thank you, Brother...your compliment/comments are humbling! You are so right, I can relate to what you are saying. I can speak in front of many and choke at those in my own home... Sam
CableDawg4Life
___________________________________________________________ "The Internet is a telephone system that has gotten uppity." -- Clifford Stoll "A man with few friends is only half-developed; there are whole sides of his nature which are locked up and have never been expressed. He cannot unlock them himself, he cannot even discover them; friends alone can stimulate him and open him." ---Randolph Bourne |
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Santosha1 |
#12 | |||
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hhmmm....so it seems it is the intimate relationships in our lives that we struggle with...I wonder why that is...family ought to be our "safe" place
to fall...gotta thunk on this one longer...
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bc199th.vets |
#13 | |||
Santosha1 wrote: I think for some of us it is the fear of getting extremely close to a loved one and then losing them. That happened to a lot of us in combat and after a while you tend to withdraw and not form really close relationships for fear of losing them. This is not something you make a conscious decision to do, it just happens. You would think this condition would disappear once you leave the battlefield for good but that did not happen for a lot of us. To me this is the most damaging and hurtful symptom of PTSD.
Bo
11B40 Vietnam '69-'70 80% SC 100% IU SSDI
'No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection.' |
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Santosha1 |
#14 | |||
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Perhaps then, the heart of the matter is those of us who have PTSD feel very vulnerable, and perhaps have endured so much in this lifetime, that even the
thought of being "hurt" again, or going through the pain of losing someone we have gotten close to, is to much to bear. And lets face it, those we
love the most have the power to really hurt us the most. So we dawn our suits of armor and act as if we're incapable of being hurt. Gawd such a high
price to pay for feeling vulnerable and afraid of being hurt.
It's as if there is a disconnect for the emotions of love and joy, and a strong connection for the negative emotions... It's sad to be cognizant of the fact you are the one denying yourself these powerful emotions, but you can't seem to get out of your own way...maybe that is the first step to changing it, acknowledging it, and having the desire to change it. |
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kihunter.vets |
#15 | |||
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I would not give up the 23 years of love I had with Tim. Even knowing that I would lose him at 41years old. I have so many wonderful memories with him, both before and after he was in the desert.
And I don't really consider it a "lost" love. Because I still love him the same even though he is no longer physically with me. {{hugs}} Krys |
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Fragorders.vets |
#16 | |||
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Ahh to loose a love, to be open and at the same time vulnerable, perhaps one of the hardest thing for someone who is afflicted with PTSD yet most of us still
yearn for that special touch or comfort from someone. Almost like a double edged sword, where we continuously weigh the pros and cons of should we be better
off alone or with someone? To give into the idea that we should roam the earth alone, for the rest of our years because perhaps it is the "easier"
thing to do, is almost as comforting as wearing an old t-shirt, to give up hope, and embrace the isolation. I have crossed this path one too many times, to
totally give up and spend the energy once spent on finding love again, and use it towards my career, how easy it would be, wouldn't it? Yet I find myself
on the threshold once again, turn left- and see if I can still be in a healthy relationship and conjure up all the powers within me, and not screw this one up
this time around, to get things right, to be open again, to lower that icon that I used so many time to ward off the chances of being hurt. Or turn right- and
be alone, be in total control of my life knowing the life of being alone is the only way one can live with out being hurt again.
I find love to have the potential of being more addicting as any drug. Where I am in withdrawal from it for so long, do I just wait it out and be free, or give in and relish in the thought of all that might good come of it? A hard pressed question indeed. But yet I have grown tired. Tried of waking up in the middle of the night, scared, crying, wondering where I am at- and so the drawl of having someone, just once to tell me that I am safe, I am o.k. and pull me away from the darkness, if not for a few fleeing moments. But you and I, friend, are fighters. Be it thrust upon us or sought, we have fought, on the field, elsewhere and in our minds. And yet we may face our greatest enemy we have ever come across our path, ourselves. And it is not with the grenade or gun we can fight and win, but I, in all earnest, feel that it can only come with someone whom we place our hearts in, as battered and bruised as it may be, to be our salvation. Be it from a lover, a pet, family and friends, we need it- to find our peace, to survive. There has been many times where I cursed God for where I am today, cursed him for not letting one of those stray bullets hit its mark, and spare all those who I loved and lost, the pain that I had put them in. Be it from divine intervention or the unconscious will to live, I am still breathing and I can not believe that I am meant to traverse my life alone, so I seek out love again in the hopes of being whole once more. That is my spin on love. |
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Iron Knights |
#17 | |||
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I understand the question to mean Love as special relationship between two or more people at the exclusion of everyone else. To me, Love would be the very
essence of a higher conciousness and I couldn't imagine it being limited to a particular person or people. I would think if you truely love you have to
love everything otherwise it would seem to be some type of ego reinforcement. Or maybe I need to be deprogramed? LOL
I think I would prefer to change the word "Love" with "Live" and for me the answer would be "not have lived at all" with the information I currently have. Now if when I die there appears a reason for all the suffering I have witnessed and still witness in this world, then I would obviously be prepared to change my answer. |
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vickia1969.vets |
#18 | |||
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I could not imagine not living with love. So for me I think it is better to have love and lost then to never have loved at all. When a relationship fails it is
painful, but it does not take away from th good memories. At least it should not. It might take time to see that but it does happen.
Reality is determined not by what scientists or anyone else says or believes but by what the evidence reveals to us.
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Santosha1 |
#19 | |||
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There are many beautiful posting here in this thread, and I truly want to thank all of you who have responded. I realize, for many, even the word
"love", means turn and run. I think their are many people who walk this planet feeling as though they can not love, nor are they worthy of love,
many go to their graves without ever experiencing love, and that, in my mind, is tragic.
Krys-- you are 100% correct, even though I have lost many people I've loved during this lifetime, they are still with me, the blessing of having known them, of having loved them will always remain with me. I think this is one of the main reasons I am a big "hugger"...I always think about the hugs we shared. Frag--I had a hard time sleeping Friday night and I read your post shortly after you wrote it, and I have read it several times since. Your writing moved me to tears, for I believe you have "captured" the struggle many of us have with love. I've come to believe it is not fair to another to expect them to make you feel whole, or happy. That it's our own personal job to "love" ourselves first. How many of us can say "yea we're pretty good at beating ourselves up"? Of making everything that goes wrong in life our own personal fault. I've come to believe we must first learn to love, approve and accept ourselves, as we are, here and now. And in order to do that we need to take the energy we spend on beating ourselves up and practice being kind, gentle and loving to ourselves. Yes, to love ourselves, with all our warts and our baggage. How can we truly love another, or receive love from another, if we don't love and respect ourselves first. If we feel angry at ourselves, not worthy, etc., how is there going to be any room for love? So many of us understand "hate", "loathing", "despair", "worthlessness" and "lonliness" as if these emotions are like an old shoe...let us teach ourselves how to love ourselves, how to begin to replace those self destructive emotions with the practice of loving. Hug yourself, the simple mantra "I am loving, I am lovable, I love me". Why not do this instead of beating up on ourselves. MadMichael always signs off with "love, loyalty and respect". I remember the first time I read one of his posting I emailed him to tell him how wonderful it made me feel to see him freely use the word love. IK--No I do not believe love is exclusive, this is one of the most beautiful gifts we as humans have, love comes to us in many varied forms...perhaps you are thinking about a "maritial relationship", but even then we ought to be free to love others, our friends, our children, our pets, and our passions. In my mind, if the other person truly loves you, that want for what makes you happy. Again, IMHO, love is the most powerful and beautiful gifts we as humans can experince, and it's worth practicing, it's worth talking about, it's worth thinking about. Yes, in closing I am with you Vicki, I would rather have loved and lost love than to never have loved at all. Warm Hugs to All, Susanne |
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